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Multi-stage Pump Info

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Multi-stage Pump Info

Postby swampswimmingshrek » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:57 am

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Last edited by swampswimmingshrek on Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hamilton Multi-stage Pump Info.

Postby swampswimmingshrek » Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:39 pm

I'm finding people don't have much knowledge of the multi-stage pumps so I thought I would share everything I could.

There have been a couple manufactures of the the multi-stage pump and to my knowledge all the parts interchange with each other.

Hamilton made them for a while, now Kodiak (KEM)is making them, and Marine power.

Lets start at the grate. Most come with a 13 bar grate but a 9 bar is available. Our experience with the 9 bar grate is better performance but it also lets bigger sticks enter the pump so I would not recommend the 9 bar in areas with lots of trash. There also is a stomp grate available though I don't have any experiance with it.

Now off to the impellers. Hamilton and KEM both have impellers very simular to each other. Both have what is called the overlap with is a 4 blade impeller that looks like this

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Also what is common with the lead impeller is a standard impeller with a bullet shaped piece of brass infront of it. The overlap does cut down your RPM's a little and is suppose to load the pump better but I get mixed reveiws with it. But recently Scott started producing a new lead impeller which they are calling their bullet impeller. Same idea but this impellers blades are longer, there is 3 blades instead of 4, and it feeds the pump and keeps it loaded. Its showed in the fallowing picture.

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Okay now lets look at what fallows. The housing is called the stator. The fallowing picture shows the stator in place. With the first impeller still in the boat. My understanding is the fins inside the pump help stop the rotation of the water as it goes threw the pump. When these get holes or start having fins break they need to be replaced.

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Okay now the wear ring is inside of this and is the surface in which the impeller is running inside of. Now take your impeller and push it to one side and measure a gap between the impeller and the wear ring, if the gap is greater then .075" either your impeller or wear ring is wore out. The fallowing picture shows the impeller in place so that it can be measured. Remember push it to one side so that the impeller touches then measure the opposite side.

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Okay now to measure the impeller you mearsure the diameter. Measure from tip of blade across the impeller to the opposite side to the tip of the blade if the measurement is 7-5/16" or less your impeller is wore.

Okay now common problems that can cause the pump to perform poorly.

1. Something is in the pump. (You laugh but they will run with a stick stuck between stages)
2. Pump is wore out.
3. Impellers are damaged.(Nicks and dings)
4. Impeller put in backwards. (Very easy to do and yes it will usually still run)(Looking at the pump from the rear the impeller should turn Counter-clockwise.)
5. Impellers in the wrong Order. Remember less pitch then more pitch as it moves towards the back.
6. Impellers are the wrong size. (Over reving or lugging the engine) (Boat blows the pump out)
7. Multi-stage pumps have a bucket adjustment make sure the bucket is clearing the jet stream.
8. Poor reverse! Make sure the bucket is dropping far enough. Again they have an adjustment.
9. Hard getting in reverse. (Idle is to high)(Bad cable)(Cable is in a bind)

These I have found to be common problems that people run into sure there are more but I see these alot.

Okay now you ask how to tell the impeller pitch. On the rear of the impeller you should find one of the fallowing 3; numbers that say the degree of the impeller, a number that is the part number, or letters and numbers. Here are the ones I have ran into.

KEM #'s
#5 19 degree
#4 24 degree
#3 23 degree
#2 22 degree

Hamilton #
80620 Course Impeller for 771
80609 Standard Impeller for 771
JE104 Fine Impeller for 771

JH106 Standard (19 degree) for 772-773
103348 Course (22-24 degree) for 772-773

If for some reason there is no numbers there is one other way you can tell what you have. As close to the base of the blade as you can get (Part that attaches to the hub) meassure the distance between the back of the blade to the front of the other directly above it. Take that measurement and multiply it by 12 and you have your pitch. For example the distance on a 24 degree impeller will measure 2" from base of blade to front of the other. I measured another 1.58" with a micrometer multiply that by 12 and you get 19. That would be what Hamilton said the pitch should be. I checked this with 5 impellers and they all came out correct.

Good Luck!

Please feel free to add more info or correct me if I'm wrong. Also I have tons more info so if you have anymore questions please feel free to contact me.
Last edited by swampswimmingshrek on Mon May 24, 2010 10:41 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Tearing down a 2 stage Hamilton.

Postby fishinf1 » Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:47 pm

Great job shrek! I like to see more of these chilton style threads.
Kind of like eastsides painting 101. great information!
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Re: Multi-stage Pump Info

Postby stones » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:41 pm

shreck, good info. I'm new to jets, what is the advantage of a multi stage pump. Stones
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Re: Multi-stage Pump Info

Postby swampswimmingshrek » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:27 am

stones wrote:shreck, good info. I'm new to jets, what is the advantage of a multi stage pump. Stones


The two biggest things are they pump trash (Sticks, leaves, pine needles etc.) Also they stay hooked up. When you cavitate with a multistage you really don't loose any ground because the other impellers are still pushing water then by the time the air reaches the last impeller the first is already loaded up.
There is also a wide variety of impellers that can be used to tune the pump to your needs and then from there you can tune the rpms also with nozzle size.
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Re: Multi-stage Pump Info

Postby stones » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:47 am

Thanks shreck, always interested in new info. about jets. Stones
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Re: Multi-stage Pump Info

Postby swampswimmingshrek » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:06 am

More info that is asked about.

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Re: Multi-stage Pump Info

Postby Hell Yes » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:01 pm

Shrek, you have alot of time on your hands and we appreciate your willingness to share this info. I bet this took more than 10 minutes, HA HA HA . Keep up the good work!! Almost makes me wish I had the old 3 stage back,,, I said almost!!!
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Re: Multi-stage Pump Info

Postby swampswimmingshrek » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:00 pm

River boater from The other forum added this and found it very interesting.

Hello:
The one thing you folks are not mentioning is the condition of the stator, this is far more important than you think. I have spent some time experimenting with this and have found that simply by moving the impellors closer to the stators you can increase static thrust. the cheapest way to do this is to cut a 3/16 inch washer off an old cutlass bearing and slide it on the shaft ahead of your first impellor or the bullet hub.
A better way to improve performance is to tig weld up the stators to close the gap between the tail of the impellor and the vanes. also matching the flow surfaces to clean up any flow disturbance helps.
The best way to improve performance of the stator is to purchase the stainless inserts that are available from scott. Purchase there impellors at the same time and you won't know it is the same pump. An added benifit is the fact that all the jet whine so common to the three stage goes away. One down side, if you run salt water the inserts will react with the aluminum stator case and give you problems over a period of time. not as much a problem if you pull your boat out and flush it after each trip.
I set up an electric scale pad ( off a log truck bunk) on the end of the dock at my lake house. Put the nose off the boat against the pad and block assm and hit full throttle for a lbs of static thrust reading. Then spent several days testing all the crap I had built over the winter.
The washer in front of the nose cone made no rpm difference and added 85 lbs of thrust. The tig weld and closing the gap between the tail of impellor fins to stator ( down to 1/8 inch from the 3/4 inch stock) dropped the rpm 150, but added almost 200 lbs thrust. and the scott package of impellors and stators dropped the rpm 350 and added the same 200 lbs thrust. playing with the nozzle and I could have got more out of the scott package, but these parts didn't belong to me so I couldn't cut on them.
Yes there is a down side, when you fill in the stators to close up the gap they tend to get a bit thin at the leading edge if you aren't careful with your die grinder. The odd rock would bend the edge over and you had to watch as enough damage and you more than lost the advantage you gained.
The stock impellor hasn't changed in the 40 years since these pumps first started showing up. An upgrade to the new scott or other after market units available is a major shot in the arm to the trusty old three stage.
Don't take my word for it, find some old parts and start cutting them up and play around. It is amazing the differences you can make. Some good and enough bad to give you some conversation pieces for the shop wall.

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Re: Multi-stage Pump Info

Postby 98ramtough » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:07 pm

Bryce,

How much are the stator inserts from Scott? And how much is the nozzle from Scott?
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Re: Multi-stage Pump Info

Postby swampswimmingshrek » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:44 pm

98ramtough wrote:Bryce,

How much are the stator inserts from Scott? And how much is the nozzle from Scott?


Scott doesn't sell the inserts anymore. Now he just sells the whole stator ready to go. By the time you replaced the wear ring and insulator and put in the inserts, it was more money then if you just bought his stators for the 3 stage.
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Re: Multi-stage Pump Info

Postby 98ramtough » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:52 pm

Very cool that scott is making all this stuff for the 3 stages. I can see Scott will be getting a LOT of money from me! :D
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Re: Multi-stage Pump Info

Postby swampswimmingshrek » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:59 pm

98ramtough wrote:Very cool that scott is making all this stuff for the 3 stages. I can see Scott will be getting a LOT of money from me! :D


haha my jet is going to be worth more then the rest of my boat. :lol:
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Re: Multi-stage Pump Info

Postby swampswimmingshrek » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:36 am

For you 3 stage guys asking about the thread here it is.
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Re: Multi-stage Pump Info

Postby offroadbaby » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:59 pm

I'm looking at buying a boat real soon. THe one I've been going back to over and over is a 21' Boulton, 350efi (130hrs), 3 stage Kodiak. It fits our needs perfectly and is in the right price range. My question is does anybody know much about these pumps? I've talked to SSS a bit and read his post. I'd love to get a Scott, but right now I gotta get the boat first. Any helps appreciated.
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Re: Multi-stage Pump Info

Postby swampswimmingshrek » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:46 am

offroadbaby wrote:I'm looking at buying a boat real soon. THe one I've been going back to over and over is a 21' Boulton, 350efi (130hrs), 3 stage Kodiak. It fits our needs perfectly and is in the right price range. My question is does anybody know much about these pumps? I've talked to SSS a bit and read his post. I'd love to get a Scott, but right now I gotta get the boat first. Any helps appreciated.



Hey man glad to see you made it over. What would you like to know about the 3 stage. :D
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Re: Multi-stage Pump Info

Postby offroadbaby » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:31 am

More than the 3 stage, is the Kodiak a descent pump? I can't afford to change out right now, though I will eventually. I see on a couple links that Scott parts are made for different pumps and that Hamilton and Kodiak are usually together. Does Hamilton make Kodiak? Or are they just similar? Any info will help swampy. You know I'm new to jets.

By the way, I should find out this week if we can get our boat or not. Keep your fingers crossed for me!!
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Re: Multi-stage Pump Info

Postby BigCSS » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:38 pm

Kodiak is a great pump! Kodiak and Marine Power both started building the old multistage Hamilton 770 series design when the patents ran out. At that point I believe is when Hamilton went to the 211 for a short time and then onto the 212 that you see now, with a few tweaks here and there. The 3 stage pumps recover the fastest when they do happen to cavitate and they also will chew up a lot of trash in the water and are rarely effected by it (unlike a 212 can be affected), though you can still have something get stuck and cause a heck of a vibration. Generally you can shut the motor off to let anything sucked up to the intake to drop away and then start it back up and rev it, to have whatever was in there to get chewed up and spit out. This is from my experience with this jet drive, since my Dad and I have owned a 20 ft Koffler with a 350 and Kodiak 3stage now for a little over 6 years.
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Re: Multi-stage Pump Info

Postby offroadbaby » Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:55 am

Thanks man!! THat's exactly the info I needed. Hopefully, since today's supposed to be the hottest of the summer here, I'll take the boat out for a test run!
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Re: Multi-stage Pump Info

Postby wentzel88 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:21 pm

bump :Drink:
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